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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
27 Mar 2008 17:13 |
Right had a spot of bother last year with the charging system, any way it looks to have re-appeared.
Syptoms.
Been on Optimate and used fairly regular over the winter with no issues.
Today after 2 days without the optimate made a trip down to Hein Gerike. After 20 mins of trying to find a new jacket, came outside and attempted to start the bike. Starter went for about 5 secs then just clicked.....B*LL*CKS. Tried a few more times but nothing. Got a jump from the staff and rode it home no problems.
Now the techie bit.....
Voltage across batt with nothing on 12.26v
Voltage 13.5v at idle, but goes down when reved to 6k, to 13v?
Rectifer.
14.01v idle, but again drops to 13.2v at 6k
when cable disconected to the dc output, volts equals 0.86v constant. Other end of cable coming from bike equals 11.66v.
From alternator with the rectifer disconnected all 3 cables show 14V (ac) rising as revs increase (all seem the same)
when connected back to rectifer 9V(+ - 10%) at idle dropping to 5v on all 3 wires at 6k revs.
So the 64000 dollar question is "What the FooK is wrong"
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John Nelson
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 684
Tiger (01-06)
27 Mar 2008 22:23 |
"From alternator with the rectifer disconnected all 3 cables show 14V (ac) rising as revs increase (all seem the same)"
What exactly are you measuring there Dickie?
If that is from one alternator wire to another it seems rather low.
If you are reading ground to alternator wire then it is also worrying. Disconnected from the regulator/rectifier the alternator should float (have no connection to ground) which should make any readings unstable and not very meaningfull.
It would be worth checking the resistance from the three alternator wires to ground with the rectifier disconected.
If you don't show Very high resistance or open circuit then there is a fault on the alternator stator.
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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
28 Mar 2008 10:31 |
Can you believe it.........Scanned the internet and found the answer and it works.
Not the battery, rectifer, stator just plan and simple bad design!
I found this fix which I have just implemented and confirmed it worked for me, so if you are having charging systems problems follow this fix.
http://www.triumphrat.net.....ighlight=stator
The post...................
Weak charging system? - the solution
I have owned a few bikes in the past and ALL - VTX, VFR, FJR, KTM have had what I consider a weak charging system...
The Triumphs are no different.
A short personal history: I spent 15 years of my life designing and building high amperage electrical systems for automotive applications. I learned that in order for a charging system to work & charge properly you not only need a good voltage generator & storage source - the connecting system has to be solid, clean and generally over sized...
So
I bought an 04 Daytona last weekend...upon arriving home, I gave the bike a good going over.
Fluids, air pressure, battery etc...
One of my checks is to alway test the charging system...so I took the seat off (HEY, that's where the owners manual is...) and broke out the trusty fluke meter.
Tested tha battery, and it read fine (12.6ish)
Fired up the bike and voltage is riding in the 13.3-.5ish area...Humph...low...
I grabbed the output wires of the regulator to test the voltage there and WHOA - they're fairly toasty...that's not good (hot wires are a dead on sign of either a bad ground or undersized wires.)
Upon further investigation, I found the same thing I found in the other bikes -the output wires from the regulator were ok size but once plugged into the actual bike wiring, it shrunk ALOT and ran the long way to the battery...
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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
28 Mar 2008 10:33 |
So here's the scoop (or the bad)
Triumph and other bike manufacturers down size the wiring in the bike to save on cost, size, weight or what ever thinking it should be OK but, In the real world, it isn't...
Not only is the wire gauge to small, but, although the regulator is 10 inches from the battery, the actual wires that charge the actual battery leave the regulator and go into the main harness that runs forward on the bike and aventually hooks to the starter where the main starter wire is connected and ran back to the battery.
SO - instead of a 10 inch run of proper gauge wire, they use a wire that is to small and way to long especially for its size and purpose (charging the battery).
*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*
Proceed with the following modification at your own risk
All you have to do is get a couple of piese of 12 gauge wire about 10 inches long - one black, one red (if you chose...you can use what ever color you want), some ring terminal connectors and a fuse holder
on the bike side of the regulator plug (a white plug), you will see (on an 04 Daytona at least) 4 wires - 2 brown, 2 black.
The brown wires are the voltage output
The black is the ground.
UNHOOK THE BATTERY
*right behind the plug (on the bike side of the wiring, not the regulator side), cut back the insulation on all 4 wires...clear your self about 1/2" area so you just have bare wire.
*take a small flat screw driver, and open up an eye in each wire (so you have a hole right through middle of the wire...this is a "button hook" connection)
*take the red wire, strip back about an inch of it and then insert it through one brown wire, then the other...then wrap it around both wires and sinch everything up tight (yes, you are connecting/wrapping the wires together). *keep tightly wrapping the wire around until it's all wrapped into one tight connection....if you chose a solder connection, go right ahead.
Now wrap the connection tight with a good dose of electrical tape.
*Now do the same with the larger black wire and the black wires in the plug.
*connect your fuse holder with fuse to the red wire and connect to the + positive terminal as you hook up the battery. (if you get a wired fuse holder with enough wire, you can directly connect the fuse holder to the reg wires and than to the batt - they are availble at car stereo shops)
*install your ring connector to the black wire and hook it up to the - (negative terminal) batt terminal as you connect the battery.
PROLOGUE>>>>>>>>
After doing this mod, I fired the bike up and there it is...14.6 +/- volts as it should be...a nice healthy charging system...wires stay cool, lights don't dim, bike runs better (better voltage) and more responsive....
But I can say the every bike this has been done to has shown a dramatic improvement.
This mod is safe, easy and cheap.
The only reason OEM doesn't do this is expense and it would complicate assembly.
Good luck.
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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
28 Mar 2008 10:36 |
I am now getting 14.5v at idle. Increasing to max 14.7v when revved. The lights do not flicker and I am one happy bunny...
Just hope it has not cooked the battery.
Dicke C
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Brian
Southeastern NH / US,
USA
Posts: 23
Sprint ST (05->)
28 Mar 2008 20:32 |
Dicke C,
Hi. Thanks for all the info on your charging/electrical problems. I have been finding the same issues on my 05 Sprint. Battery reads 12.8 volts, then goes to 14.4 or close when idle but when I rev the rev engine the voltage starts dropping off. I usually run with heated gear this time of year and have already stranded myself once already and now fear riding with the heat on. Actually I fear riding to work and then being stuck with a dead battery.
The lights dim when I apply the throttle, as you described, but other than that all seems ok. I was thinking about bying a new rectifier but would rather find the cause and fix it.
Do you have any pictures of the modifications that you made?
Thanks for the help,
Brian
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Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 38,531
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
28 Mar 2008 20:58 |
Volts mean little or NOTHING!!!!
It's all to do with how many amps it puts out.
Try starting a car with your bike battery, or 8 AA batteries to get the idea.
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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
28 Mar 2008 21:12 |
It can only put out what it gets in, hence the mod.
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Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 38,531
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
28 Mar 2008 21:49 |
[edited]:
Which is why it's amps, not volts that count.
You will get voltage drop if a small cable i used, but not to the extent the small length from a battery to an alternator.
Wrapping wires together is a recipe for disaster. Soldering and/or crimping is a far better idea due to the Amps involved in cranking.
Something else must be amiss if you have to bypass it. Plus the run to the shops flattening the battery must mean the battery is on it's way out.
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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
28 Mar 2008 22:05 |
Yes poor design and crap cables. Hence the heat, as temp increases so does the resistance which opposes the flow of current through it, therefore if you reduce the resistance (bigger cable, less heat) you increase the current.
The cables have been soldered and crimped so no problems there.
The cable from the rectifer output must end up at the battery via the fuse box. But if you can see the route good luck. I have just taken the shortcut. MAy not look too pretty but has done the job.
Read the Triumphnet post, we can't all have the same problem, the replies consist of a number of bikes across a number of years.
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Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 38,531
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
28 Mar 2008 22:19 |
My 6 Triumphs must all have been flukes I guess.
That Kawasaki wiring has something to answer for.
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Geoff
Southamptom,
United Kingdom
Posts: 349
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (02)
10 Oct 2008 17:22 |
Been having the same problem as Dicke C voltage never constant revs increased and voltage dropped pulled the fused replaced it sorted it out for a day the the inevitable low battery max voltage was only 13.5 never went above that put lights on and it dropped to 12.5 if I was lucky.
Did the mod as per instuctions and now showing a constant 14.5 without lights on14.2 with lights on. I also fitted a voltmeter to monitor what voltage the bike is kicking out and was sick and tired of jump starting at least once a week.
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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
14 Oct 2008 08:47 |
Geoff have you got any pics of the voltmeter?
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Geoff
Southamptom,
United Kingdom
Posts: 349
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (02)
14 Oct 2008 16:40 |
Getting some sorted for you
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Geoff
Southamptom,
United Kingdom
Posts: 349
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (02)
14 Oct 2008 16:53 |
[edited]:
Check my profile under Bike done know how to do pics properly yet
[]
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Geoff
Southamptom,
United Kingdom
Posts: 349
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (02)
14 Oct 2008 17:08 |
[edited]:
Photo Album Image
Photo Album Image
Photo Album Image
Hooray I did my first photo
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Dicke C
Kent,
United Kingdom
Posts: 224
Daytona 955i (02)
14 Oct 2008 19:47 |
[edited]:
Nicely done sir! Did you have to get the surround as well or was that part of the deal?
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Geoff
Southamptom,
United Kingdom
Posts: 349
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (02)
14 Oct 2008 22:14 |
[edited]:
The surround is seperate but only cost £3 makes it a bit tidier but it also looks ok without it. it is up to personal preference.
Got it all from the meter store on line and delivery was fairly quick to.
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