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Keith Pincott
Nottinghamshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 57
Daytona 955i (99-01)
28 Sep 2008 12:10 |
I would like to thank Ducati for not killing the motogp series.
In my view Ducati could and should have objected to the pneumatic valve engine. The desmo valve system is completely passive and within the rules and superior to the valve spring design. Gerry Burgess knows this and has said so.
The pneumatic valve engine is not passive and requires an additional fuel source ie "compressed gas" Why not a turbo or a blower or fuel additives that would also enable Ducati to share in the benefits?
Pinna
ps i have never owned a Ducati and presently own a Yamaha + Triumph and been a long standing Rossi fan.
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 Earl
Hiding in the valley,
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,284
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
28 Sep 2008 12:12 |
you should talk to big dave then 
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Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 24,528
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
28 Sep 2008 12:51 |
I'm sorry Keith but I don't see what the problem with the pneumatic valve engine is. Like the Ducati engine it's perfectly within the rules. The compressed gas acts as a method of activating the valves just like the gear driven Ducati system.
As soon as you limit what can be done it takes away from the prototype nature of the series
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Keith Pincott
Nottinghamshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 57
Daytona 955i (99-01)
28 Sep 2008 13:26 |
I thought i made my point quite clearly. The pneumatic valve engine requires an additional fuel! compressed gas!!!!
If they had to fit a compressor to produce the gas in the form of compressed air that may be more acceptable. But would that be any different to a blower being illegal in producing higher compression ratios?
Again we should thank Ducati for not killing the Motogp series.
Pinna
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X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9,840
Premier Member
Enthusiast
28 Sep 2008 14:36 |
Actually Ducati should be disqualified for using a production valve train in the prototype series; oh thats right and every other team except Yamaha!
Sorry kieth, as a Ducati rider i can't agree with you. They are not using the compressed gas as a fuel: fuel by its very nature produces power directly; the compressed gas has had power used to produce it therfore it is not a fuel. It is actually using stored enrgy just like a spring only in a different way to do the same job.
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J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,191
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
28 Sep 2008 16:07 |
What X said
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Spondon****
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,945
Enthusiast
28 Sep 2008 22:47 |
I don't get this thread. How can the means of valve actuation be referred to as a 'fuel' ? And what are we thanking Ducati for ?
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Keith Pincott
Nottinghamshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 57
Daytona 955i (99-01)
29 Sep 2008 01:26 |
Ok, lets try again.
A valve spring engine expends power derived from petrol to operate a valve against the pressure of a spring via a cam shaft?
The desmo engine expends power derived from petrol as a result of operating the valves via a directly linked mechanical system?
The pneumatic valve engine doesnt expend as much power derived from petrol to operate the valves as it uses power derived from an external supply of compressed gas?
In this sense i feel its right to describe compressed gas as replacing fuel. The gas isnt being used to damp the operation of the valves? its being used to drive the operation of the valve? remember, if we pass compressed gas through a turbine it will convert the stored energy into rotational force.
We dont allow teams to get a power advantage as a result of petrol additives?
We restrict the amount of fuel a team can use to derive its engine power over a race distance.
We dont allow teams to get an advantage as a result of the bikes weight.
We dont allow teams to get a power advantage by manipulating the atmospheric pressure other than passive air box design.
So why would we allow the inferior valve spring design manufacturers to raise the power of their engines ("increased rev ceiling) by turning a blind eye to petrol substitute power derived from an external compressed gas supply
The reason is that MotoGp was dead in the water if Ducati were allowed to keep the power advantage derived from passive desmo compared to passive valve spring.
This didnt apply to 990's because there was always a massive excess in power in all designs. The success here was down to getting the power down, not producing it.
Honda's arrogance when trying to wrong foot Yamaha by instigating the 800 era backfired in the most dramatic fashion when the Ducati desmo system produced a more powerfull engine than was possible from the traditional jap designs when power became king!!.
None of us brought up on jap superbikes enjoyed watching the Ducati piss all over us in a straight line? Maybe Yamaha, Honda, suzuki and Kawasaki should pay Ducati for use of the desmo system instead of cheating with compressed gas. I am not fooled and neither should you be
Pinna
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Spondon****
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,945
Enthusiast
29 Sep 2008 01:45 |
I'm not sure why the Japs or anyone else would want to pay Ducati for the privilege of producing a Desmo, they didn't invent it and they don't own the exclusive rights to it.
I just feel you are barking up the wrong tree here, couldn't a pneumatic engine be just as easily 'powered' by compressed air ?
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X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9,840
Premier Member
Enthusiast
29 Sep 2008 11:08 |
err, just for clarification...does the Yamaha use a cylinder of compressed gas or does it have a compressor. I admit to not knowing.
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Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 24,528
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
29 Sep 2008 18:15 |
I would guess that's a technical secret, but it's probably a cylinder of gas as that would be lighter than a compressor
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J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,191
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
29 Sep 2008 18:29 |
Would a cylinder last a whole race?
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Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 24,528
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
29 Sep 2008 18:53 |
obviously it does.
I'll just drop a e-mail the head of Yamaha Engineering and ask how they do it 
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X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9,840
Premier Member
Enthusiast
29 Sep 2008 19:01 |
dunno, an electric pump made out of carbon fibre, doesn't even need a container to store air if enough humph in it which is not hard to do.....
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