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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
24 Sep 2002 23:08 |
I am wondering if anyone in here has come across my problem before.
When I was out for a blast yesterday my engine developed a loud solid metalic clattering at what seems to be the rear of the engine.
It sounds like a knackered big end and only happens from 3000rpm and over when the engine is under load.
Up till 3000rpm you would never know something is wrong but, over that its scary.
My local dealer is busy investigating what the cause is. Up to now they have drained the oil and taken the sump off and there is no white metal from the bearings to be seen and they have also taken out the generator in case that was faulty.
Don`t tell me to check the chain cos it does this in neutral. The revs can be built up to 6 or 7K with no probs but, if i snatch the throttle open off it goes but, only after 3000rpm.
Strange? you bet it is.
Any ideas are welcome. I will keep you all informed when we know the outcome.
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Tom Wilson
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 22
Daytona 955i (99-01)
25 Sep 2002 05:41 |
Mike,
My friend has a speed tripple with the same problem (only done 20,000Kms), but it is constant clattering. We have checked the shims and camchain - all seem o.k.
Bike shops have been no help as yet.
Mine also ticks - verging on clatter, constantly. Sounds like tappets or camchain - but has just had a top end rebuild - & it was doing it before the rebuild!
Both bikes only make a noise after 30 seconds, you can almost set your watch to it.
I have split my engine recently and all bearings etc are sweet. Yes, it was put back together correctly.
Both bikes have great performance, the machanic at the shop reckons mine is one of the fastest Daytona's he's ridden.
Maybe it's a different problem to yours, but it sounds similar.
Its realy pissing us off, will be keen to hear if you solve your problem.
Clutching at straws...we think our injection systems maybe out of balance.??
Good Luck
Tom the Pom
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
25 Sep 2002 17:05 |
Clattering
Hi Tom
My engine has done exactly 11K miles.
This noise is so loud I can here it at over 100mph (the speed I was going at when I first heard it).
Before this it was a sweet running engine which is why its so annoying. If I build the revs up in neutral there is a slight tinkling and I can go all the way up to 6000rpm but, if I load it up from tickover it clatters loudly from 3K.
On the road I can gun it from the lights or wheelie it with no probs, till I hit 3K.
Mike
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carl denton
birmingham ,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9
Enthusiast
25 Sep 2002 23:14 |
engine noise
hi yes you have got a problem with your engines and yes i do know what is wrong .
if sound is when you put engine under lode it is big ends .
if sound is whenyou are not under lode it is small ends .
you must sort problem out soon or you will have a engine like the one i
stript down to day .
it has got no con rod and no engine case rond number 2 cylinder and has snaped the starter in harfe .
yours work shop maniger pole position triumph B ham ENGLAND
phone for more info 0121 3233523 carl.
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
26 Sep 2002 00:17 |
Noisy engine
Cheers Carl
The shop have got the nod from Triumph to strip engine as its still under warranty.
I would have thought that if it was the big end then there would have been white metal from the shells floating around.
Am hoping they have the time to do it tomorrow.
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Tom Wilson
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 22
Daytona 955i (99-01)
26 Sep 2002 04:43 |
Hi Carl,
thanks for the info.
I've had big ends go on an old honda I used to own so know that sound quite well.
My mates and mine definatly don't change under load.
Will small ends rattle with load aswell as without load?
Thanks
Tom
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carl denton
birmingham ,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9
Enthusiast
26 Sep 2002 23:18 |
engine noise
gday tom
yes smallends will make same sort of sound if you ride along at about 50KPH and then put power on if it makes sound it is smallends .
if you hold front brake on and then try to put power on . BUT DONT SPIN BACK WHEEL just drag moter down .
if it makes sound it is big ends .
HOPE THIS HELPS YOU AND YOUR MATES .
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carl denton
birmingham ,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9
Enthusiast
26 Sep 2002 23:28 |
BIG END RE BILD
HI MIKE
GLAD YOU HAVE GOT IT IN TO YOUR DEALER
hope they do a good job of your moter . if they tel you only one gon down tel them you wont them all done dont let them cut corners .
I HAVE NOW DONE A LOT OF THEM AND NO THEIR IF NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE ENGINES IT IS HOW THEY ARE RUN IN AND WHAT OIL YOU RUN IN THEM .
HOPE I CAN HELP YOU AGAIN
YOURS CARL POLE POSITION TRIUMPH
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
27 Sep 2002 00:06 |
noisy engine
Cheers Carl
This engine was run in by the book and also with the correct oils.
Strange thing though Carl, to get her home i had to ride her for 50 miles and the noise didn`t get any worse.
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
27 Sep 2002 21:14 |
Engine noise
Carl
I take my hat off to you.
Your comment was spot on about my engine.
My dealer has had a look inside and found the telltale signs that the big end has cried enough.
What do you think might have caused this though? As its the first time in 33 years that i`ve had a big end go on me.
I suggested to them that they replace the 3 conrods and he agreed that it might be worth doing that.
Shit, i hate running engines in, sigh!!!
Mike
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Tom Wilson
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 22
Daytona 955i (99-01)
01 Oct 2002 02:11 |
it's a nightmare
Hi guys.
Carl,
turns out my friend has suspected big end trouble on centre pot,
mine would appear to be cam chain.
The mechanic reckons Mobil 1 is the only oil that should be used.
My mate has been runing Motul, which the mechanic says may have contributed to the problem. I have used Mobil 1 exept for one oil change; which is when my bike started ticking.
What oil do you guys recomend \ think?
Mike, good luck!
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
01 Oct 2002 22:12 |
A nightmare?? You aint heard this then!
Number 2 big end started knocking, that we now know.
On stripping the engine they found that bearings had started to pick up on cyl 1 & 3.
They lifted the crank and found that the pistons have been picking up too.
The oil light has NEVER been on.
The engine was running sweet till it started knocking.
I always warm it up before driving off.
It was run in by the book.
Oil was changed as per Triumphs instruction using semi synthetic and then fully synthetic Mobil 1.
What the hell went wrong?????????
Mike
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Doug Harvey
Toronto,
Canada
Posts: 1,211
Daytona 955i (99-01)
01 Oct 2002 23:31 |
Sorry to interupt, what is meant by "pistons have been picking up"?
Again, sorry but my English is not to good, I'm from Canada U-know.
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
02 Oct 2002 21:13 |
Piston picking up?
Hi Doug
Don`t appologise for coming from Canada mate, some are worse off than us lol.
What it means is that the pistons have picked up metal off of the liner or vice versa.
It`s a bit like a siezure but, in my case we suspect that the metal from the bearings has got up into the pistons causing them to "pick up" on the liners.
Mike
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carl denton
birmingham ,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9
Enthusiast
02 Oct 2002 22:20 |
hi lads
sorry did not come back to you i have had to work hard this weak lots of tiumphs to work on and ride god i have got a hard job .
but back to the problem we only youse mobil oil but wont put full sinthetic in till bike has done 6000 milles .
TOM
YOUR CAM CHAIN
it is not un hurd of but yuo will have to change cam chane tensoner and cam chain or it will do it again.
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Graham Gibbs
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 7
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
03 Oct 2002 06:09 |
Engine Clattering....but not under load !
Hi Carl & Mike, I'm "Tom the Poms" mate with the sick Speed Triple......and I'm confused ! My bike's 2.5 years old and has just clocked up 20,000kms. The engine ran as quiet as a sewing machine up till 15,000kms and then started to develop a ticking noise which has been getting louder and louder and has become a clatter. The noise only starts 30 secs after morning start up. The engine noise is normal up till then.
At 16,000kms I took it to a local Trumpy dealer who checked the cam chain tensioner before telling me Trumpies have noisy engines and not to worry about it. The noise got louder and at 19,000kms I took it back to the same dealer. Two mechanics listened, prodded and poked it and told me not to worry about it. Drove it another 1,000kms before Tom and I did the 20,000km shim service. All shims were spot on. We cut open the oil filter and it was clean as a whistle. Put in new Motul oil, as specified by the dealer who originally sold the bike. Took the bike on a Sundey blast/ride and met another Speed Triple owner who's had various Trumpy Triples. He took one listen to it and gave it the big thumbs down. So, I took it across town to another Trumpy dealer who lisitened, poked and prodded and pronounced that the big end on No.2 cylinder was gone and that Motul oil was shit and was probably the cause of the failure. That dealer now wants to strip the engine down and do a rebuild. Still in shock, having never had a problem like this in 25 years of riding, I took the bike to an independant workshop. They also did the stethescope testing but were the only ones to put the bike under load. The noise got got quiter and so they don't believe the dealers big end theory. They agreed it's a fairly horrendous noise but suspect top end / possible valve guide problem not bottom end. Where the hell do I go from here ? I can't believe a modern engine can self destruct after 20,000kms of normal riding. I'm reluctant to commit the bike to a dealer I don't know and then be presented with a bill for many thousands of dollars. Any suggestions on narrowing down the problem ?
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carl denton
birmingham ,
United Kingdom
Posts: 9
Enthusiast
11 Oct 2002 21:56 |
hi graham
sorry did not get back to you but had to move in to my new house .
right then you said that cam chain tensioner has bean changed but did they change the chain this will make a ticking sound when reves coming down .this is a job you could do your self .
i must say that if sound goes when under load it dose sound like this is what is wrong .
small end pins are also prown to ware if bad oil is in use as i have said in the past we only run mobil oil and triumph u.k do run it in test bikes .
hope this helps yuo will log on on sunday night uk time c if it has pointed you in the right direction
wish i was down the road would come and have a listen to your and sort it out for you thair and then .
YOURS CARL POLE POSITION TRIUMPH
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
22 Oct 2002 23:37 |
Unwanted noises
Well I finally got my bike back.
Ive been getting withdrawal symptoms all this time.
The dealer has done all he could for me considering the bike was taken in and jumped the job queue.
Now i`ve got to run the bugger in again and will be doing another dose of miles wondering if it will happen again.
Wouldn`t it be nice if Triumph could come back to me and tell me if it was a crank failure after they`ve checked the bits out.
Fat chance of that I suppose.
Mike
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Tom Wilson
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 22
Daytona 955i (99-01)
25 Oct 2002 02:11 |
Good Luck
Hi Mike,
Good luck with the engine.
We are still in griefsville over here downunder.
New camchain fitted, still rattles.
Taken the clutch out, and it rattles like a bastard. Maybe this is the problem?
I just want to try and eliminate a few issues before getting to the big/small ends as Carl suggests.
Thanks again for the advice Carl, Will keep you posted.
Money is now playing a large part in holding up procedures.
Tom
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Triple Ecstacy
Aberdeen,
United Kingdom
Posts: 376
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
25 Oct 2002 18:24 |
Cheers Tom
All the best with your engine.
I hope it ain`t the disaster that mine was.
Anyway i`m enjoying having me bike back now.
The next 1000 miles will seem like an age.
Mike
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Graham Gibbs
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 7
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
05 Nov 2002 23:04 |
Hi Carl, Thanx for repsonding to my email and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I ended up taking my Speed Triple back to my local non-Trumpy bike workshop, had another listen and decided we'd pull off and inspect the clutch. Bingo ! My 2000 model bike has the older dual spring set up on the back of the clutch basket and all 6 inner springs had compressed by about 1cm. When we shook the basket by hand it rattled its head off. The fact that the clutch rotates at high speed and sits at the base of the camchain tunnel would explain why the noise was hard to pin down and could be detected in different parts of the engine. Apart from the localised bottom end noise, the noise must be resonating up the camchain tunnel giving the impression it's possibly top end related. So, we've sent the clutch basket off to have the dual spring set up replaced by a single spring. It should be back this week. Fingers crossed this will solve the horrendous rattling noise. I'll keep you posted ! PS. Apparently, Suzuki tried this double clutch spring set up on their early GSXR engines and gave it away after loads of problems. Why did Triumph make the same design mistake 15 years later ?
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Nick Sheppard
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 2
Daytona T595 (97-98)
18 Nov 2002 15:47 |
Dissillusioned and skint!!
Finally!!! I honestly thought i was just one unlucky bastard in a sea of happy triumph enthusiasts. after spending just over a grand on replacing half a gearbox at just 7000 miles i was horrified 6 months later to hear my engine doin just what you guys are talking about! I love my bike dearly but have really been in two minds as whether to get it fixed or not as i`ve been quoted £1500 to do the small ends as apparently you have to replace the conrods aswell. Has anybody here had repeat misfortune?? Will do anything not to be forced into buying jap tripe but I really can`t afford a £1000 repair bill every year!
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Tom Wilson
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 22
Daytona 955i (99-01)
19 Nov 2002 02:36 |
update..
Clutch seems to be ok.
Replaced the cam chain, but not the tensiner as Carl suggested. (already done the job and too pissed off to pull apart again!)
Will try that next.
Several opinions from people in the trade that have listened to Graham's & my engine is that it is not big/small end (maybe some hope for you Nick?) also, we have done 6,000KMs so suspect it would have put a con rod out the side by now if this was the prob.
Sorry to hear about your/our problem Nick, maybe between us we can work it out at minimal cost??! Will keep you informed.
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john skelton
telford shropshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Trident 900 (95-98)
19 Nov 2002 10:24 |
engine clattering under load
Hi Nick. I had the small ends go on my trident 900 in june.Like you the cost was too much,so i was forced to doit myself.I'm no mechanic but with a plan,outside help an patience i did it.Always had a good mate to call on for advice an a pair of extra hands,but did most of it myself.I know its a bit scary when your pride an joy is strewn all over the shed ,but why not give it a go mate.Done over 1k miles an all seems ok. John.
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Nick Sheppard
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 2
Daytona T595 (97-98)
19 Nov 2002 21:17 |
Thanx for the confidence boost guys, went to the bike show today and saw a 595 that was easily the best lookin bike on show! made me realise some things are worth sacrificing for. Will break the news to the missus tomorrow bout us not goin on holiday next year!  In two minds whether to have a go at it with a haynes manual and a hammer like you suggest john or risk a second hand lump from a breakers. Anyone know of a breakers with a decent rep? (If there are any)
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john skelton
telford shropshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Trident 900 (95-98)
19 Nov 2002 23:00 |
Hi Nick, if you decide to have go yourself gives me a shout through the message board, an if i can shine any light on anything i will. I'm only down the road in Telford and could always catch you up bassets pole.All the best either way,especially with breaking the news!
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Graham Gibbs
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 7
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
01 Dec 2002 05:28 |
Hi guys, time for a depressing update on my Speed triple and the mystery noise. My clutch theory turned out to be incorrect after I put Tom's new single spring clutch basket in my bike and found the noise was still there and just as bad. Concensus of opinion from a couple of local meachanics who've listened to it, is that the small ends are shot. So, I'm in the same boat as you Nick and John ! Horrified and pissed off to think I've got to rebuild the engine after 20,000kms. I'm now caught between a rock and a hard place. I love the bike and can't think of any Jap bike to take it's place but how long before something else goes wrong ? I think I'd rather cut my losses and sell it after the rebuild. My wife's real keen on that idea, especially after she looked at all the tales of woe on this website ! Tom's already spent thousands of dollars on his Daytona replacing all the inlet valves after 25,000kms and the clutch basket at 30,000kms and now he's also looking at small ends as well as his bike has now developed the same rattling noise as my bike.
Anyway, I'm going to do the rebuild myself with Tom's help. John, how much did it cost you all up to to do the small ends ? Did you replace the pistons, gudgeon pins, conrods and big end shells as well ? Any machining required ? Did you use genuine Triumph parts or is it possible to buy better quality aftermarket parts ?
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Greg Watters
Victoria,
Australia
Posts: 186
Daytona T595 (97-98)
01 Dec 2002 16:38 |
Check out Argo engineering in Morpeth ph 0249347099.
They inspected and gave a report on my rods last year then quoted on making some $1050AUD/1set and cheaper in larger quantities.Should still have the specs in my name.
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Graham Gibbs
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 7
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
02 Dec 2002 16:51 |
Thanx for the info Greg. I'll give them a call.
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Adrian F
.,
Australia
Posts: 1,013
Daytona T595 (97-98)
02 Dec 2002 17:04 |
Graham, sorry to hear of your bad luck....by the way what oil are you using?
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Graham Gibbs
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 7
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
02 Dec 2002 17:24 |
Hi Adrian, I was using Motul !!....as supplied and specified by the original dealer !!......and yet Triumph Australia have told me that although Motul meets specifications, any engine problems they've experienced have been as a result of this oil being used. Triumph recommend Mobil 1, which I put in last Saturday after swapping clutches but me thinks it's a little too late for my engine now !!
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Adrian F
.,
Australia
Posts: 1,013
Daytona T595 (97-98)
02 Dec 2002 23:57 |
Groan...wish you hadn't told me..  Mine has Motul in it from previous owner service at Shogun Triumph in Brisbane...hey where did you get your Mobil 1? ordered through local Mobil servo? Ta
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Chris van Schagen
Deventer,
Netherlands
Posts: 3
Trident 900 (95-98)
10 Mar 2003 22:03 |
Big end repair idea
Hi,
Can any of you advise me on whether I can do this:
Bike: early trident 900 1992
Looking at the Hayes manual, I think it is possible to repair a worn-out big end by removing the sump while the engine is in the frame and that way have access to the crankshaft;
I have a knocking sound which sounds like beads at low idling and loud knocking when under load; when engine was hot (just when it happened) it was even louder, I think due to the lower viscosity of the oil at higher temp.
I want to do this:
- put bike at a 1 m high bike stand;
- remove oil & filter
- remove sump
- check rods for play;
- unbolt the connecting rod cover
- remove bearings
- install new ones (after measuring)
- place cap with new bolts & nuts
- place sump
oil etc.
When small end is gone, do I need a new connecting rod?
Thanks for your advice
I think this is possible, that way preventing to remove the engine from the frame and keep the water inside
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Skippy
Dunfermline,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,801
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
11 Mar 2003 09:56 |
Not necessarily. If the crank journal is damaged (highly likely if the big end has gone) it will have to be reground to an undersize and the correct undersize bearing fitted. More than likely the rod big end will have to be re-machined as well.
The small end should be able to be re-bushed if it is outside tollerance. They press in a bush and hone it to the correct size.
If it´s too badly damaged or bent replacing it would be best.
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Chris van Schagen
Deventer,
Netherlands
Posts: 3
Trident 900 (95-98)
14 Mar 2003 21:38 |
Thanks for your help.
We'll, as a stubborn dutch guy should do, I'm going to remove the sump tomorrow, praying that the damage is on the bearings of the big end of cylinder no. 2 , order new parts, fit them and be ready for a summer blast with Mobil 1 oil, breaking it in gently.
Wish me luck
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Chris van Schagen
Deventer,
Netherlands
Posts: 3
Trident 900 (95-98)
16 Mar 2003 09:23 |
It's the no2 Piston which is damaged on the backside, probably due to overheating. The cylinder is also damaged.
The piston had play in the cylinder, causing the knocking sound.
Maybe it is caused by the fact that a trident doesn't have an oil cooler like the trophy?
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Po-Lock-N-Load
South FL,
USA
Posts: 3
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
11 Oct 2008 17:13 |
changing rod bolts
I know I'm bringing this thread up from the dead. But I just thought you should know, ANY TIME you change the rod bolts, you MUST have the rods resized, as the rod bolts act as dowels, aligning the cap to the rod. Changing the rod bolts will slightly alter the cap alignment, just enough to wipe out a bearing (you're talking clearances of 1/10th the thickness of a human hair).
Not to mention, you can't press the old bolts out, or the new bolts in, with the rod in the block.
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